sound dada?????????????

[Mandar]

hate this when on a shoot everybody calls u that....even on a synch shoot. sound dada from where this came i wonder!!!!!!!!!
why dada man..???
By the way all the SOUND DADA'S from recent batches have i hope signed the memo which will be given to the association to reduce the fees for the card... i hope everybody knows what am i talkin abt....especially all the SOUND DADA'S...
we cant work without a card .... for everybody else the fees is minimal but for sound its 36k and u have to start with as an asst card and then u graduate to get a RECORDISTS card....this is the issue.... all these union guys have harassed many of of us on shoots .....the only pt being money.. That's why all the institutes (srftii included)pass outs are submitting a memo regarding this....
by the way there are ftii pass outs in the union so i think might help us....HOPE SO.....

tomorrow the memo will be submitted to the union.... those who havent signed plz contact niyogi..and those who have..plz neglect this. those who already have the card....in any circumstances(production being helpful and paying ur fees when they come on shoot)be happy.......


topic moved to appropriate forum: admin

[Paramvir Singh]

good post, sound dada
the union fees are way too much for an entry level or even a working pro to asfford without feeling the pinch. let us know if you feel the picnh...

[Saihmee Dara Singh]

mandar dada.....as far as sound dada is concerned i share your feelings, but this DADA syndrome exists mostly in non-sync shoots nowadays or if one is a novice in the industry...location recordists are slowly graduating to the SIR category...
Union card: Why arent we made aware of something like this by our seniors when we are out there assisting...or if the insitute made aware third year passing out students about this process with some collaboration with the union.(have spoken to some union guys regarding this)
As regards to Union fees is concerned i faced the union wrath on one of my shoots ,those guys are nothing but bullies...
If some1 can explain me the significance of the graftii card
To my knowledge since graftii is not affiliated to any trade union the card holds no value..
Why this card has a place of pride on the official graftii website ?
Will someone explain what this graftii card is all about ?

Anyways during the shoot i went to the western india motion picture sound recordists association at juhu and got my form along with a heated discussion with some of the guys present there regarding their bullying tactics and the high fees which the association is charging..They had this argument that since we are also insurance covered so the high fees and if some1 is interested the fees can be paid in small installments...
Also i got this rate card which mentions fees for recordists for all types of work viz.docu,film,foreign shoot etc...Recordists are supposed to have 8 hour official shifts,everything over and above is overtime(really nice but in reality a utopian thiought)....This 8 hour or for that matter any kind of change can only be brought if the big names and seniors put their foot down regarding certain issues

REQUEST TO ALL please shed the JAANE BHI DO YAAR(nothings gonna change) syndrome...


I got in touch with this senior FTII pass out Mr. Madan prakash who is a secretary in the FWICE..he was very helpful and promised to help me in every possible way he can to get my assocn. card done.As far as the memorandum is concerned its good it has reached the association, I had also called up Neogi ji regarding the status of memorandum when i was desperate to get my card.(Still dnt have it though)

Lets hope for the best and in the meantime

KAL KYA HOGA KISKO PATA ,
ABHI ZINDAGI KA LE LO MAZAA...

[Paramvir Singh]

anyone here know a lawyer? aravindan?

as far as ai know, the Sound or Camera unions are labour unions. They have to be registered as Labour Unions if they want to have any say. and labour unions, if I am not mistaken, cant charge as much as tehse unions are. also I dont think they can rightfully disrupt a shoot. we need someone who is more aware of LABOUR UNION LAWS to help us on this one...

[Mandar]

the best part is i dint pay for graftii card when lots of MY SENIORStold me that....which i eventually dint do for other reasons..........thats apart
the only point being ..why i wasnt aware of all these things? good point dara.. i feel there has to more education on all these things what we are facing right now in insti...
u know waht i feel where we lack is ENTREPRENEURSHIP...
WE LACK THAT KNOLODGE
and its the the best thing insti can teach us rather than sound... i dont kno ....i feel like it...sound...nobody taught me anything apart frm ramteke and sk for sometimes....
in my 3rd year i didnt do any thing for abt 11 months....
i dont kno what am i gettin into when i passout...
i think the whole picture shud be told to everybody when they come for interview...
the question we used to ask WHY SOUND? It really matters ..
have interacted with juniors ......and the best part is ....they want to be like PRITAM
........................
i felt like ......no just laugh it off
just like that....can anybody understand where am gettin into?????
and sorry even on synch shoot the whole SOUND DADAthing is there in bits and pieces

[Saihmee Dara Singh]

Its gonna be just we here, beating around the bush as no one"s going to reply...so lets end this discussion here as no1 is least concerned about anything happening here in the industry..
GBM"S BEGIN AND FINISH IN FTII ALONE..aint it ?

God save all..
AMEN

[Mandar]

me just gettin started here....?
nahhhhhhhh am jokin... agreed..no point ....just leave it...
but lets try and sort it out rather thatn having a gbm...and
by the way...as far as gbm is concerned ..nahhh dont think shud even reply...so be it...."CHALTA HAI"
isn't it???????????????????????

[jabeen]

I joined the editors' union, AFE, last year and the fee was 12 thousand including all deposits and extras. Also, they accepted the FTII diploma as qualification enough and admitted me as a full member. The sound guys are insane. People at Graftii have been trying to convince them for years now, but they just get more belligerent.

The Graftii card. It has some benefits (depending on your point of view) because we are affiliated to the Film Federation of India. Recently, after taking panga with the sound recordists union in fact, we realized that we are not a full union because for that, we need to join a body called FWICE (I think that's what it is) - The federation of cine workers. And apparently they won't admit us, said the sound union guy, because our members are all from different departments of film-making. We considered it. Can we try to become a formal union? That's a huge thing, with legal implications. Do we have the people to run it, or the resources? Can we fight cases if our members don't get paid etc? It would mean that people have to give up film making and become union leaders - that's what these oldies who run the industry unions do.

So, let's get real. You join Graftii for other reasons. It can be a very powerful network and be extremely useful in many ways if people take it seriously. But it is not a union. Even if the card were to stop people from persecuting you on the shooting floor (which it does in most cases), it will never be the same thing as joining a union. This is the way things are right now. But if any of you want to change this, all you have to do is come and join. It doesn't cost much and it is very easy to take it over and make it whatever you wish.

Jabeen

[Paramvir Singh]

hi jabeen! sorry for teh late reply. Will having a GRAFTII card negate the necessity of a union card?

I just paid some 15k for a WICA membership! Insane! But if I have a GRAFTII Card (which I do), can the union people still create trouble?

[Nikhil Mulay]

This gets more confusing and irritating than ever... as a student who is about to pass out, i will have to now somehow 36k just to get the association card so that any shoot that i am in does not get disrupted. But for some crazy unexplained reason, i will only get an assistants card!!!? After spending 5 years in the institute(YES five in my case!!!) this is ridiculous. Do these guys mean to say i am not capable of working as a sound recordist(thats what they call em) for two years and have to assist someone!!? AND that too after paying 36k? There has to be some way of fighting this now. Hopefully the letter will have made some impact by the time i have finished my diploma.

[jabeen]

I didn't realize this thread was still going strong! Param, my reply is even later than yours.

I thought I had explained it already, but let me spell it out again. The Graftii card is not at all the same thing as an industry union card. Graftii is not a trade union. We are members of the FFI but that does not put us on par with a union. We can give you many fringe benefits and access, but if a producer doesn't pay you, we can't fight your case. I know it is costly to join a union. But if you can afford it, I would suggest you do it.

As for the sound recordists' union, those guys are totally off their rocker. The Graftii committee tried very hard to negotiate with them, and several senior and junior sound recordists have also tried in various ways, but they just don't listen. No other union gives people such a hard time. But I was given to understand that recently there had been fresh elections and some sensible people had gotten in as office bearers. I think that would be the only way. We do need these unions eventually because they are our only protection against powerful producers who default. If they are not being run properly, people have to try and change things from within.

Meanwhile, how many sound recordists does it take to change a light bulb?

http://www.shootfirst.co.uk/lightbulbs.htm


Jabeen

[Paramvir Singh]

hahaha
funny ones,jabeen!

my WICA card is still not here. mr rajan kothari was extremely helpful, but the blokesintheunionoffice were nuts. my space barisnotworking willpost fromanother comp...

[Paramvir Singh]

hi Jabeen! sorry about the lack of space bar message above!

What exactly does the GRAFTII Card give me? I have one since the first time it was issued, but what does it do for me?

What I would expect from a Union Card is
1) a forum to address my grievances and help me solve problems
2) a forum to ensure minimum wages and better working conditions
3) education and training to upgrade skillsets
4) publications to inform us of the latest

I have been checking out the site of IATSE, the American and Canadian Union for entertainment industry people. What they offer is something we cant even dream of, but if we can get somewhere half way, it would be great:

IATSE
Why Join?

Different employees want union representation for different reasons.

Some want better wages.
Some want better working conditions.
Some want health insurance and retirement benefits.
Some want the protection of an organization to represent them with the employer.
Without union representation, employers can pay you anything they want, from minimum wage on up. There is no law that requires them to pay anything more than minimum wage.

Wages

“It has long been known that unionized employees make more than non-union workers, a fact confirmed by this new earnings data from the Labour Force Survey,” says Statistics Canada in its summer 1998 Labour Force Update.

Average Hourly Wage Rate Union Employees Non-Union Employees
All employees
$18.57
$14.04
Full-time employees
$18.84
$15.18
Part-time employees
$16.74
$ 9.76
"The average employee covered by a collective agreement made about $19 per hour in 1997, 32% higher than the average of those without coverage," according to the Update.

Benefits

Without union representation and a contract, an employer has no obligation to provide you with benefits such as health care coverage or retirement savings plans. For those of you who are working nonunion, you know this is true now.

Which Employees Receive Benefits Union Employees Non-Union Employees
Pension / Group RRSP 82.8% 32.9%
Supplemental Health Care 83.7% 44.4%
Dental Care 77.0% 41.9%
Paid Sick Leave 77.2% 44.7%
Paid Vacation Leave 84.1% 65.3%
Source: Labour Force Survey


Protection

Without union representation, you can be fired for any reason - or no reason at all. The IATSE has been successful in negotiating contracts that provide protection for employees from being disciplined or discharged by employers, without just cause. In addition, there are representatives who, if you wish, can represent you in your problems with management. You do not have to confront the employer over his failure to properly pay you or for unfairly disciplining you.

[jabeen]

Well, come to think of it, I joined the Association of Film Editors (the official industry union) more than a year ago. So far, I have not received a single communication from them about anything. If they have a rate card, nobody has told me. I have no idea what activities they do, or even who the office bearers are. The only person I have met is the clerk who took my money. Oh yes. And one large grey haired gentleman who said that they had formed a vigilance squad to catch non members working in editing studios.

So I haven't got anything for my 12,000 bucks so far. Graftii at least took only 2000 bucks and has parties every now and then.

Can you imagine a scenario here like what happened in Hollywood recently, when the writers union went on strike and it crippled the entire film and television industry?

Jabeen

[soundtrane]

jabeen, self-help and all that... if all of you editors have been sitting on their backsides waiting for someone to do wonders, nothing will happen and that is what you see. your association of film editors has been managed by people who are archaic in their thought process as well as the rates they think an editor should get. it's time you guys did something about it by being proactive with your association. after all, an association can do only what its members want, and if you feel your workplace and rights will be protected by some set of people and you dont have to do anything about it except pay your fees, you are no better than a lumpen who pays off a bunch of cronies to wreck the competition's workplace. so it's time people stopped thinking that associations and unions will do everything like "big daddy" to protect us...

-vin